TOPIC: Communication gets harder and harder ??

Hello Daniel,

ive send a mail but no reply. i asked about my subscription that expires next month. but i wanna know about the updates, im still running the same latest version hotspots then a year ago. Where are the updates ??

Hi,
You've send an email to what address? The proper way to contact me is always - the forum or the ticket system.

And I'm really sorry that you feel disappointed - I see that you've purchased hotspots on the 4th of April. That was hotspots 1.0, then in July you got hotspots 2.0, till August we had 2.0.5 .
Now the thing - developing hotspots3 takes time (and it took me much more time than initially thought it will) ( you can see what we are working on here: compojoom.com/about/blog/entry/hotspots3...ew-release-available )

I understand that you want to have your hands on hotspots3, but I won't release something that is full of bugs and doesn't follow my quality expectations. I think that you would rather prefer to have a bug free version that won't crash your site, than the opposite? Well hotspots 2 is this version right now.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Let me clarify a few things as i see it..

this is what your changelog shows:

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2.0.5 stable [29-July-2011]

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2.0.4 stable [18-July-2011]

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2.0.3 stable [12-July-2011]

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2.0.2 stable [10-July-2011]

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2.0.1 stable [6-July-2011]

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2.0 stable [4-July-2011]

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I subscribed on: 07 April 2011 23:00

Thats just 5 updates all in july 2011, security, bugs etc...
Then for a long time nothing.....

so i started with 1.0 , not long after that the 2.0.x and then nothing anymore, because it takes longer ?
Thats not fair Daniel, cause now my subscription wont last for a new version is released..

and btw..my name is Mario , does that ring a bell?
we talked over skype a few times..

Hey Mario,
Although I understand your point I don't think it is right to accuse me of unfairness. When you buy a software you buy it not because it might contain cool features in the future, but because it has the features you need right now.

With your subscription you get access to all updates trough the year + support. And here is the very important point - support. Support takes time and is the most important part of the "support subscription". If you encounter a problem with the software I'm always there to help and I think that I've managed to do this so far fairly well. If you have a problem with the software, then start a support ticket or create a new forum thread and I'll investigate it and help you solve it.

Developing software takes time. I won't release a new version that has bugs and that is why I take my time to make it worth it. This one has taken a lot of time due to the complexity of the "marker manager". I can't develop something that I don't understand and
research is difficult.

Here is a list of books that I've read since August:

Javascript web applications
High Performance Javascript
Supercharged Javascript
Programming Collective intelligence
Pro Javascript design patterns
HTTP: The definitive guide
SQL Cookbook
Advanced PHP programming

+ add several books about google maps and joomla. Don't forget blogs, usage groups etc.

And I did all this with the goal of creating better Hotspot version.

There is no conspiracy on my side. I don't care when you bought your subscription, what I care is that you receive a good product and good support.

I can't address a complaint about a version that is not on the market yet and I certainly don't want to explain why it is not on the market yet.

You've bought a product last year and you are receiving the support promised. (correct me if I'm wrong on that)

Kind regards,
Daniel

P.S. If anyone else want to add something to this thread - please don't hesitate to do so!

Hello daniel, im not accusing you of anything. Im just saying that as a customer it doesnt feel right.

You're subscription as you describe it:

€ 39 Hotspots12
Your selected subscription includes
12 Months FREE software updates

12 months software updates Daniel.

But then you say, I can't develop something that I don't understand and research is difficult.

Here is a list of books that I've read since August:

etc...etc..

My obvious question now is, why is it costing me my subscription period so you can read books ?
The point of a subscription is to release software updates, and doesnt have to be fully stable. If members have to contact you for problems pure related to the hotspots, then it means it wasnt stable.....as you want it to be.

If you look at the hotspots forum you see that there are enough problems,or bugs as you refer them as ...will be solved in V3.
So, many times your saying you want to release stable software, but infact it isnt stable....(meaning no problems)

If you dont release more frequently then its hard to get feedback from members...

And not to forget about support: some time ago i contacted you about using Jfinalize, a plugin to speed up a website that many people are so positive about.... remember? With the plugin some functions of hotspots didnt worked after using Jfinalize. And what happend?...you ask me to send you the stuff which i did so you could investigate. Any feedback from you after that ?? No.

anyway, you know my thoughts on this....and it not about accusing you for bad support, but im not happy with the zero updates in 8 months. Nobody would find that acceptable.

Well,

I just read and followed the postings written before and I think I would like to add my point of view to this.

Anybody who buys an extension from compojoom gets a superb product with an 12month support through either this forum with very fast response or by support ticket which is not slower anyway.

You got it. Product and support.
So what´s the problem, did your product not work?
Did you get no satisfing support?

Let me tell you in another way.

You buy a car which is your favorite and you´re fully desired with.
You get free inspections and lots of services for a defined period.
All is fine.
Now, the car producer announces a new modell of your car with a APPROXIMATE time of appearance in the market.

Do you really think even ONE car producer would give you a new modell for free only due to the reason you already got one?

Come on, be realistic.

Regards
Oliver

I personnally like Hotspots, I support Daniel free of charge and have been watching, testing and helping developing now for years.

Well, you're a moderator so i think you should stick to that...nothing more. I dont see your reply as to be very independent. How can you compare this with a car ?

On a yearly base i buy a lot of components or modules, and some template subscriptions. For myself or clients.
For what i can tell, hotspots has the lowest rate of releases...
Basic idea behind that CAN or COULD be that the author releases 1 major release per year.
Ive never seen this before...

Im also a big reviewer and publishes that on Joomla. To my opinion it does seem worth mentioning that releases are minimal..

Its nice to defend great suppport, but thats normal !
If you dont give good support, you get bad reviews at Joomla JED and then its over with the business.

The subscription says also: 12 Months FREE software updates.
What updates?
Thats my point.

Ok, so we are on a good base to discuss.

In my own opinion, not to be seen as any official statement or position of compojoom, support means the following:

Any necessary security releases regarding the extension and version I buy.
Help and support for installing, configuration, if covered with my payment.

Why do you think high frequency of releases is more valuable?
Weekly patches on bad code, hacking leaks is better than no updates and safe an stable extension?
I cannot find any advantages in such update policy.

Hotspots is a very complex component with lots of functions behind the "frontend view".
It´s not that easy to change several codings within the releases itself.

As already announced the next version will be more modular. So it will be much easier to switch over functions in future without distributing whole new relases. Another thing to keep in mind is that hotspots depends a lot on google map api and the interfaces brought with it. It´s lot of work to get the best performance out of this api combined with the framework of joomla.
All this points have to be kept in mind developing a new version, not to forget the requested features from clients.

Regards
Oliver

Up to some point i can understand any roadmap to updates...but its not very wise to not to release any form of beta that could easely be used on a production site.
Every major release comes with bugfixes, enhancements and more or clever functionalities. I think that 9 out of 10 programmers have beta releases. People want something in return for their money and arent interested in some nice policy as you guys mention here. support is and comes natural with a product. beta releases are natural as well. People can decide if they want to use it or not. Then you get feedback from member who uses it in all kinds of website situations and configurations. Thats smart.

Hi babylon,

thanks again for your reply.

Did you read the blog?
There´s already a new release available to all of you in evaluation status.

Hotspots3

To be honest, on nearly every site you find lots of notices NOT to use "alpha" or "beta" releases on productivity sites.

Everyone involved in compojoom is working on releases for stable to supply customers and satisfy them without errors and bugs. That´s Daniels philosophy and it ever was.

So why do you want to get non stable releases that would bind resources and peoples time to answer unnecessary issues?

Regards
Oliver

Well, i guess continuing this topic isnt usefull as you only see it in favor of compojoom. But thats fine. You obviously dont know whats been said and posted in the forum on the releases when Daniel often refers to ...next beta release...etc...When its time i will write my review and thats that.

Hey Mario, hey Oliver,
Let's not transform this thread in compojooom vs. the rest. It won't be productive to think in that way - at the end I value positive and negative feedback.

@Mario - obviously no matter what I say here won't be a good answer. However I want to say that I'm taking note of your considerations and if you take your time to read the blog post about the dev release - you will see that my goal is from now on to release often and to soon have stable dev. versions. Once we have stable dev. releases the goal is going to be to ALWAYS have stable dev releases.

Kind regards,
Daniel

Hello Daniel, im not making this personal and i still like Hotspots. But i dont like how Hotspots is "sold" and that my subscription is almost at the end with no updates in the last 8 months. But thats from my point of view AS a customer. Nobody in his right mind would agree with you.

Let me explain what you would gain:

1. if you release dev releases you will be able to debug the version before its officialy released. Many programmers have stable releases and beta versions. Its natural to say NOT on production sites just so you're not responsible for any loss or damages.

2. if you have dev releases the support you have to give after official release is less cause you're dev users helped you to debug it.

3. its more fair to subscribers to release more, they will be more loyal to you.

And..nobody else is replying here other then you're moderator. No members....

A lot of things to think about

Hey Mario,
That are all valid points and I completely agree with them.

I've build the infrastructure to release dev. versions with just one click. (previously this would take a day...) Once I release 3.0 the goal is to release updates each few weeks(not months) - only the time will show if I will succeed.

Let us stop talking and waste our time. I understand your point of view. (if you was a developer you would also understand mine. And you would also understand why it is taking time etc...)

Kind regards,
Daniel

I like to chim in as this is a good discussion to have. First it says FREE updates. It does not refer to how often. Unless you are relating it to an update per month.

Reading books is needed. That is how we better ourselves and move the technology forward. R&D is needed and expected. Danial is a great programmer and works hard to build solid products. You will also notice a site update that better enhance user experience with the customers. This also took time away as it was a needed thing.

The price is so small compared to what you receive. I feel many Joomla companies under price themselves with the support they offer. 80% to 90% of the time support is not a 5 min thing. You can put easily 1-2 hours into a support issue. Now if your hourly rate at the company is 70 bucks. Guess what that 79 dollars is gone. So the price is rated at a steal cause you get a YEAR of support on top of the updates if any come out.

My direction I would have taken at this argument instead of complaining that life is not fair would have been saying Daniel I see my subscription is coming up. I love to be a tester for your products and so on and he might have extended your subscription as Compojoom needs help from testers to better the products and make sure they get as much bugs out of all releases.

I rather wait till a solid product is out and repay for a subscription which is what happens a lot with me because this does several things. Help further the development of a product I support and want to keep using and also keeps me updated to the latest and with great support. I don't really focus on when updates come out. I would say when updates don't come out that means IT IS A SOLID product.

Hope I may have shared some great advise to help moving forward.

Best,
Michael

@ Michael Pignataro, nice of you to reply but again a reply from an administrator and not a member.
I know all about subscriptions and support that comes with it. I have a bunch of Jreviews subscriptions, for myself and customers. On a yearly base thats xx times $160,-
And i get top support, over and over again....releases are continues. And if there is a problem, its solved before i can scream help.

Btw, i never heard the programmer (Alejandro) about reading programming books. Reading books shouldnt effect peoples subscriptions. If for some reason a programmer isnt ready to continue programming because of technical updates beyond his capabilities then memberships should be extended.

Babylon,

I am happy to reply and assist in any way I can.

JReviews is a great product. Totally different scale then what HotSpots is. For example I am VP of Operations at www.corephp.com and our top product WordPress for Joomla another complex component. We also do not release regularly for many reasons. If the product is working and working solid you should be good to go. Most of the time a product is updated on a regular basis is due to bugs issues.

What I am getting to is there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we are not all privilege to know or understand. That is very typical. But Daniel is very open person and sharing that he is learning and building his skills to better his products and stay current with the latest technology. This is not a bad thing this is part of research and development. And reading books shouldn't effect peoples subscription. But you are taking that and turning it into a bad thing.

- If for some reason a programmer isnt ready to continue programming because of technical updates beyond his capabilities then memberships should be extended.

This comment is very false...He is continuing and working on the next release.

Please let us know how we can assist you and better your experience here at Compojoom. We are always improving the site to better the experience.

Best,
Michael Pignataro

And reading books shouldn't effect peoples subscription. But you are taking that and turning it into a bad thing.

No im not Michael, i just said that because Daniel mentioned that he read a bunch of books since. He wrote "I can't develop something that I don't understand"

And during that period nothing is released...
And my opinion is that its not fair, but to be expected i guess if he works alone.

- If for some reason a programmer isnt ready to continue programming because of technical updates beyond his capabilities then memberships should be extended.

This comment is very false...He is continuing and working on the next release.

I think you misinterpreted my remark on that...
But to be clear, im using Hotspots, i will continue to use it. But thats not what this is all about....

He allready send me a mail with his view on things and he agrees on some things.. So let us leave it at that. There's no point in continuing this..